Bridging Passion and Profession: David Tsai on Identity, Purpose, and the Power of Role Models
Photo courtesy of David Tsai
David Tsai is Pillsbury’s Taiwan Practice co-leader and also resident in the San Francisco office. David is a first-chair trial lawyer and focuses his practice on intellectual property, patent, trade secret, trademark, copyright, complex breach of contract and product defect litigation in courts and international arbitration tribunals.
Could you please introduce yourself?
I’m David Tsai, and I’m a partner at Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman. I practice in intellectual property law; I’m primarily focused on litigation, and general commercial litigation as well.
What led you to do intellectual property (IP) law?
In college, I studied biochemistry, so I’ve always been a science guy. And then I went to grad school and I started doing research with stem cells, went to Stanford and did that there as well. I actually worked at internet startups after that—I did a lot of software work and product management. Eventually, my parents told me, “You can’t just make money, work in the startup world, and then just go to parties. You need to do something more meaningful!” So then I was just thinking, what can I do? During that time, I was just coming out, and at the time there weren’t many laws for LGBTQ+ rights (and a lot of that is unfortunately being rolled back too, if you look at the laws protecting transgender individuals that have been eliminated). So I thought that maybe I could go into law to help people that can’t help themselves, especially in civil rights matters and in LGBTQ+ cases.
When I got to law school, one of my professors there said, “You have such a great science background, why don’t you think about IP law?” The school I went to, Santa Clara, had the number one IP program at the time. So I said, “Okay, I’ll try it, I’ll do this.” And then they said, “You should just go work for a firm first to get trained,” and the firms were looking for IP people here in the Bay Area. So that’s how I got into it initially. I didn’t know I was going to do it my whole career. I thought I’d do more civil rights work, but I still do a lot of pro bono work involving the LGBTQ+ community and other minority communities. But my work practice, in terms of making money, is all focused on IP, and I really enjoy it. It’s so much fun, just because it involves technology, and the law there is always changing since technology is changing too. This makes it more exciting because you’re not always handling the same cases over and over, and each case is so unique and different.
So you do LGBTQ+ and civil rights pro bono work on the side, but your work practice revolves around IP. Do you see any intersections between the two? Do you see your LGBTQ+ identity intersecting with your professional work at all?
Good question! Definitely. If you’re a litigator, you can advocate. You learn how to best advocate, so you use these litigation skills in terms of advocating in civil rights matters too, and in writing briefs. During the [2008 Marriage Cases] in California, for example, I organized and led some of the writing of the amicus briefs for a number of cases.
When I work on LGBTQ+ or other minority asylum cases, I need to use my advocacy skills too. Sometimes I go to immigration court, where you need to be able to argue the case, and prepare your witness for the case; those are skills I learn in my daily work [at Pillsbury]. That’s why I also encourage the associates I work with to take on pro bono cases, because it really gives you a hands-on experience. In the end, I’m just working with clients—it’s no different whether they pay you or they don’t pay you. They’re all clients, and you have to treat them all with the utmost respect and provide the best legal services possible.
Photo courtesy of David Tsai
“I was just coming out, and at the time there weren’t many laws for LGBTQ+ rights (and a lot of that is unfortunately being rolled back too, if you look at the laws protecting transgender individuals that have been eliminated). So I thought that maybe I could go into law to help people that can’t help themselves, especially in civil rights matters and in LGBTQ+ cases.”
How do you balance your pro bono work with your IP work?
It’s the same thing as balancing your professional life and your personal life: you find time. And when you’re busy, you care more and you’re more efficient. You do a better job, actually, since you know how to do it—and that’s why you’re busy, too! So you just find time.
It’s inspiring that you encourage the associates that you work with also to get involved with pro bono work and that you provide that guidance for them. Has mentorship impacted your own career and your professional development as you’ve grown, before and after becoming a lawyer?
That’s a good point. I have had many mentors and sponsors that have helped me through the process, in terms of giving me personal advice on how to manage my career, but also professional advice on how to excel at my career. I’ve had mentors that were at the firms I worked at, and also outside of the firm; I’ve even had judges who were my mentors, too. I’ve been really lucky to have had a lot of different people in my life that have helped mentor me. I’ve also had sponsors: people looked out for me at the firms I have been at and made sure I got the opportunities that I have had, and also to make sure I got paid right. And they also made sure I got to excel—to become a partner at a law firm, for example.
At the same time, I mentor and I’ve also sponsored two associates. And I also learn from them: each generation is different and it is important to learn from every generation because there is something they each offer. I learn from the way they think, the way they say things. So I try to mentor them, but they’re mentoring me, too, at the same time!
That’s a wonderful outlook. I’d love to know if you have any particular philosophies or approaches to mentoring others.
Everyone says this (and I always say this, too) but I think the most important thing that I always tell my mentees is: find your passion! Make sure you are passionate about whatever you’re doing. I make sure that I help them find their passion, and that they evaluate what their passion is, so that they can excel at what they do.
Photo courtesy of David Tsai
“The most important thing that I always tell my mentees is: find your passion! Make sure you are passionate about whatever you’re doing. I make sure that I help them find their passion, and that they evaluate what their passion is, so that they can excel at what they do.”
That’s such a valuable insight—learning from your mentees, but also encouraging them to find their passion. It’s definitely helpful for students and young professionals to hear as well, as they start their careers.
Yes, you need to be really excited about what you’re doing. You need something to look forward to, right? If you’re not excited about what you’re doing, if you wake up and you’re not even looking forward to going to work—that’s not good. If you’re not looking forward to doing the thing that you’re going to do today, that’s not good.
I’d love to go back to the insight about all of us having a lot to learn from each other. How has your own identity—whether your generation, your LGBTQ+ identity, or your cultural background—influenced your personal and/or professional trajectory?
I’m a double minority, I suppose—I’m an Asian American male, but I’m also gay. Being a double minority, there’s a lot of imposter syndrome in the sense of “I don’t belong here,” and at times you also feel like you’re being pushed down. There’s different types of ceilings here and there, whether it’s a bamboo ceiling or a glass ceiling or any other ceiling that keeps you down. What motivates me is that I can be a role model to those that are in my similar situation or even other types of minorities that are less similar to me. Being a role model to them is what keeps me going, because role models make a huge difference in terms of what people can dream of and how they can believe in themselves.
So for me, serving as a good role model is very important. I didn’t have many role models, unfortunately, but I had many people who did not look like me who took care of me. That’s why I also take care of people who don’t look like me; everyone gets to where they are not just on their own in this society, but because people are looking after them. So I want to make sure that I do look after the people that really need people to help them.
What an encouraging approach! I’m sure that makes for great leadership, not just as an attorney but also beyond. Now, I’d like to shift gears a little bit. How do you balance your professional responsibilities with your personal life, whether hobbies, pro bono work, or any other responsibilities?
I’m a new father, actually. I’m a single father of a six-month-old, and so I have to put aside a lot of my personal interests for her now. But I don’t mind at all. She’s the joy of my life now, and probably for the rest of my life. So, you make time and you adjust accordingly; you tell your team if you’re changing what time you’re going to be in the office. I try to be in the office every day when I’m in town, just because I want to be here for the associates that I work with, but my time in the office is shorter so that I can spend time with my daughter in the mornings and in the evenings. Before, I just worked in the office from early mornings through to late nights! I didn’t mind because I really love the work that I do and I’m passionate about it. That’s why I was saying you have to be passionate about what you do, otherwise it’s miserable. But now, I’ve had to adjust. I make sure I stay on top of all my responsibilities, and I do a good job—an excellent job, frankly. For me, as an attorney, I make sure that my clients feel like they’re first in mind and that they’re being taken care of.
Photo courtesy of David Tsai
“Be yourself whenever you can. You shine because of who you are. You shine because you’re LGBTQ+, you shine because you’re another minority, you shine because you’re a woman, because you’re a man, because you’re transgender… That’s part of the way you think, and that’s what you bring to the table. And that perspective is super important.”
Congrats, that’s amazing! This brings me to my final question, though I suppose it’s two questions in one. What is the best advice that you’ve ever received, and what advice would you give young LGBTQ+ individuals who are interested in the law?
I think the best advice—and people are afraid of this—is to be yourself. You do have to adjust sometimes to the work environment that you’re in, and that’s normal. But don’t forget who you are, and be yourself whenever you can. You shine because of who you are. You shine because you’re LGBTQ+, you shine because you’re another minority, you shine because you’re a woman, because you’re a man, because you’re transgender… That’s part of the way you think, and that’s what you bring to the table. And that perspective is super important.
Unfortunately, in some professional work environments, you might have to change the way you dress, and you might have to change the way you act sometimes. That’s just normal and it’s part of a business environment. You have to adjust to that, but don’t forget who you are so that when your opinions come out, your true self comes out. Going back to the conversation about passion, make sure you are passionate about what you do—and that usually comes with being your true self. If you aren’t your true self, you can’t be passionate about something because you’re holding back.